Updates & Forks - Discussion

Hey Filip,

  1. Why would some nodes not get updated ? When all nodes follow the same protocol what’s stopping them from getting updated ?

  2. In hard forks, you told “what’s previously invalid becomes valid”. We saw an example of increasing the block size to <2MB, which means previous blocks which were of 2MB will be valid now. But if 2MB blocks were created earlier, no miner would even pick that trxn and it would have been a stale block. So when a block becomes stale, everything in it gets collapsed. How does the collapsed block get formed again to be valid with the new update?

  3. Is there a possibility that a previous hard fork can get collapsed as well from a newer hard fork from a new update?

Transactions will return to the mempool. The block reward is part of the transaction list and gets dropped along with the rest of the txs.

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A Bitcoin node is any computer that runs a Bitcoin implementation and stores the entire blockchain, if the node owner agrees with the updated protocol he/she will update their node to the new protocol if not the node will run the old protocol. It is not something it will get updated automatically the node owner should agree for the change.

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Before updating to 2MB a block with 2MB size will not get accepted by the nodes the nodes will reject the block when validating it, it won’t get a chance to be a stale block too. But when nodes update to the new change that means they the one that was invalid before now it is valid so if a block is created with 2MB size it is going to be a valid block now because the protocol is changed and they are not the collapsed block get formed again these blocks are newly generated after the protocol is updated.

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The txn fee gets refunded? or it stays with the txn until it gets 6 confirmation?

Thank You Maki. Understood.
So it basically means what rule/condition that was previously invalid becomes valid now, once the node chooses to accept the update in the protocol ? Correct me if i’m wrong again.

I thought its the blocks that were previously invalid becomes valid now, misunderstood.

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How can the initiator of a transaction interfere with the workings of the nodes and remove the Txn from the mempool, isn’t he just a sender of Bitcoin to he who sells digital goods, please help me understand @filip

A transaction initiator cannot remove a transaction from mempool, but the sender can replace an existing transaction with a new one with a higher fee.

Hi @filip and Co.,

After finishing this first course I have some questions about how the network is managed.

  1. How is bitcoin “controlled”? I mean, since it is decentralized, how are the unlocks working? Is that all the remaining bitcoins are hosted in a wallet and are released over time, plus the halving, etc? Is all this atomatized since the moment of its creation?

  2. Related to the previous question, when there is a hard fork what happens to all of the above? Which of the chains remains as BTC and which one doesn’t?

  3. How are updates proposed and implemented since it is so decentralized? How is the community discussing and deciding all this?

  4. And finally what happens to the mining reward for stale blocks? Since there is a duplication, who is getting the reward?

Many questions, hope you guys know a bit more than me hehe thanks!!! :stuck_out_tongue:

Bitcoin is controlled by all Bitcoin users around the world. As bitcoin is an open-source development project, volunteer developers are improving the software, they can’t force a change in the Bitcoin protocol because all users are free to choose what software and version they use. The remaining bitcoins are not hosted in any wallet, new bitcoins are created within the coin-base transaction inside every single block. when miner is creating a new block to add the bitcoin blockchain, the miner include one transaction called coin-base transaction, that coin-base transaction is the first transaction that gets added to the block. As this moment that coin-base transaction gives the miner the opportunity to create 6.25 new Bitcoins. The halving is an automated process.

A hard fork create two separate chains which have the same history, but different future. So the old chain will have the same feature as it has before the fork.

Since it is an open-source any developer can update the software but can’t force anyone to use the update version.

The block reward is part of the transaction list called a coinbase and gets dropped along with the rest of the transactions.

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What I though don’t understand and I struggle to get my head around it (maybe because I haven’t ever traded any coins), is that it seems that everyone that I know can transfer crypto currency at any given time seemingly on an instant. But we know that it takes time to confirm the transactions (min 10 minutes), which might not even include your transaction what to speak if there are Forks and it’s carried on for longer times. How is this reconciled ? How is it possible that people seemingly trade and transfer coins with seemingly no time delay ? I hope that makes sense, it’s racking my brain a bit.

Imagine you transfer some coins and your transaction is actually in a Fork that is discarded in the future, how does the system allows you to carry on and how long does it actually take for you to have a transaction finalised (which according to my knowledge up to now can vary, but seeing it in perspective of the mentioned above) ?

I see your point, but this accidental forks happened rarely.

But is there then time delay of what we see on the screen and reality ? Maybe it’s something that is cleared in due course, just recks my brain not to understand this 10min gap and our tx seemingly happening immediately. :exploding_head:

No, the transaction takes a minimum of 10 minutes to get mined it never happen immediately and if it is not mined it says pending.

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Is a stale block a fork as well or is it sth completly different?

Yeah it is a fork and it is called accidental fork.

@Padma-Suta when you say that one tx seemingly hapenning inmmediately what kind of platforms do you refer? do you refer to centralized exchanges like binance or coinbase? because when you do a trade in those platforms the trade is made inmmediately because they aren’t using blockchain at all they use a Hosted Wallet and inside that wallet they make all their movements and rearrange client’s balance but if you try to take your crypto out from a centralized platform to your own wallet let’s say metamask it’s going to take around 10 minutes in case you’re moving bitcoins. Also exist something called off-chain transactions which allow people transfer bitcoin instantly without any fee you can research about Lightning Network or layer 2 protocols if you want to dive more in that topic.

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Good stuff @rakkos! Yea I was referring to friends of mine who been trading, selling and buying different currencies like Bitcoin (mainly on crypto.com app) and it seemed from what they said and experienced, that there was no delay in their action. I haven’t used any of these till a friend of mine encouraged me to Stake some coins. There I experienced the delay going through various steps, so in that way I appreciate you confirming the facts.

QUICK QUESTION :thinking:

Let’s say I am “Miner A”

An update comes out but I (Miner A) have not received the new consensus rules yet. Therefore I continue to verify and propagate blocks according to my rules.

Lets say that “Miner B” gives me a block with a block height of 5 but I am on block height 9.

But “Miner B” has the new update, yet a smaller PoW than I do.

Would I (Miner A) get rid of my blocks for Miner B;
even though his PoW is smaller but has the latest update?

If the update is meant to be soft work, In this case the hash power of non updated miners is greater than the updated miners So the one with greater POW will win over the other chain. https://medium.com/@lightcoin/the-differences-between-a-hard-fork-a-soft-fork-and-a-chain-split-and-what-they-mean-for-the-769273f358c9 here is an interesting article.

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