Updates & Forks - Discussion

Blockchain and Bitcoin 101
#487

Please could somebody help me with some questions I have? Up until now, I didn’t realise there was a discussion thread, only a homework thread. A couple of them are just confirmations

can you confirm:

1)If as well as high fees, a miner will prioritise a transactions with fewer inputs and outputs, because more of these take up more block space
2)That transactions are only returned to the mempool, if invalidated after the 6th block? One source told me that technically the previous five blocks are also part of the memopool.
3)Are miners fees only paid out, if and after accumulating up to when the 6th block confirmation takes place? How would a miner lose their money in a stale block situation, if they received it at an earlier point already?

4). do a high percentage of miners go out of business, if they spend so much electricity, and are unlucky enough, on so many occasions to not solve the algorithms attempted.

5)Fees seem to be higher from a digital wallet, than when using an exchange. Is there a reason for this that involves the miners. I ask this because I have made transactions through exchanges and none have been delayed. I guess that miners only interact with the mempool. If that’s the case, why aren’t exchanges much slower than SPVS, WhenThe latters fees are higher?

Thanks in advance for any help. :slight_smile:

#488

I replied in the other topic. :stuck_out_tongue:

#489

Thanks for the reply :slightly_smiling_face:

Please could I ask 3 more:

1)Are miners fees paid after each transaction, or only paid out, if and after accumulating up to and when the 6th block confirmation takes place?
2)if the former, how would a miner lose their money in a stale block situation, if they received it at an earlier point already?
3). do a high percentage of miners go out of business, if they spend so much electricity, and are unlucky enough, on so many occasions to not solve the algorithms attempted.

thanks :slight_smile:

#490

Miners get reward for each block that gets accepted on the blockchain. If the block gets dropped, so does the reward. They can also only spend it after 150 confirmations.

Block reward is part of the tx list called a coinbase tx. So if the block is dropped, so is the reward for the block.

I’m not sure, I guess it depends on the miner itself if he doesn’t have enough capital to be prepared for situations like that then one can go out of business. :slight_smile:

2 Likes
#491

Question on hard fork. I’m using example in video (1mbt and 2 mbt blocks) to better ask question. Once the hard fork occurs and two chains are now running, what happens to the transactions that are in the 1mbt blocks that are staying in the updated chain running <=2mbt blocks while other 1mbt blocks are still amending to the original <=1mbt chain. Would this force some investments into a new creation of BTC while others remain in standard BTC? Hope I’m clear in what I’m asking.

#492

I’m not sure what you mean exactly. Tx that were created before the fork exist on both chains after the fork. :slight_smile:

#493

It would be easier to explain my question with diagrams but I will try it this way using labels.

  1. Prefork chain is working on consensus <=1mbt, label “A”
  2. At block 5 an new consensus rule is entered of <=2mbt and a fork is created. We now have two blocks, “B” <=1mbt and “C” <=2mbt.
    I will now use labels to ask question. Miners continue to create blocks on both “B” & “C” out to block #11 creating an equal chain length for both and both would be valid at block #6 at this point. Is this theoretically possible? We would now have coin “AB” & coin “AC” operating under different rules. So now back to question. Investors are still conducting their transactions under the premise that all is the same prefork, would the Blockchain (if this could theoretically happen) eventually correct and put all transactions in chain “B” back into mempool or now remain in new coin “AB”? Also, as an after thought. What happens to mining awards issued at block #6 on chain “AB” seeing that it was fully validated by block #11?
    Did that help to clarify questions?
2 Likes
#494

Thanks, I appreciate your fast and consistent support
:slight_smile:

#495

Hi Filip

What is happening with a reward for block mining as well as fees if it becomes a stale block. I mean wether it revokes anyhow?

#496

Hi Filip

In regards of names for updated version… The original version stays with the original name and new updated version will have a new name, Bitcoin Cash/Gold, etc. Is it correct?

#497

The block reward is part of the transaction list called a coinbase so when the block is dropped, so it the coinbase.

Its brand recognition so obviously the one that are able to will keep the name. :stuck_out_tongue:

#498

Hi Filip!
Who normally initiates these updates and how is the update communicated?

#499

The updates are usually first discussed on the Bitcointalk forum. Next they are drafted into a BIP (Bitcoin Improvement Proposal) where it gets further discussed. Once accepted it gets into development to eventually be implemented. :slight_smile:

1 Like
#500

Hi Filip,

I had a question about accidental forks. To use an example, let’s say an accidental fork has formed and the split occurred at block height number 5. The two different blocks of the same height will be called block 5a and block 5b and all the miners are now working to find the next block. Some are trying to connect to block 5a and some to block 5b. Eventually, a miner trying to add to block 5a succeeds and broadcasts their new block (block 6) out to the network. I understand how it would instantly be accepted and added to block 5a because it is linked to it. However, why is it also instantly added to block 5b? Since that version of the chain rejected 5a, because it received 5b first, it should no longer have a copy of 5a, right? So my question ultimately is why doesn’t the version of the blockchain with block 5b simply reject block 6 since its hash is not linked or related to 5b’s hash? How do the nodes with 5b’s version know to go back and look at the other nodes with the 5a chain and see that that chain now has more PoW and therefore should be accepted as the legitimate version?

#501

I’m not sure I understand. If block 6 is linked to block 5a then block 5b will be dropped from the blockchain because the chain with block 5a has more PoW.

I think you’re mixing the blocks here. You mentioned 5b was rejected because a block was found on block 5a.
In case the block 6 does not exist yet then nodes will accept both blocks because they are both valid and have the same PoW. As soon as block 6 is found, nodes will start dropping 5b because its the shorter chain.

Nodes will have both blocks stored, or even if they don’t have block 5a and there is a longer chain, they will drop 5b and query the network for block 5a to sync with the network since that block is part of the longest chain. :slight_smile:

#502

Thank you for your quick response. I think that last part of your response ultimately answers my core question. I was unaware that nodes still stored both blocks of the same height. I thought that, going back to my example, if a node received block 5a first then it would reject block 5b when it was propagated from other nodes. Am I correct in understanding now that, as long as block 5a and 5b both make sense, and block 6 hasn’t been found yet, every node will show both 5a and 5b as the most recent block added once they’ve been exposed to both of them? If this is the case, do miners just chose which one to try to expand upon?

#503

They will treat both blocks as valid at the time until the fork is resolved.

Miners usually pick the block they received first. Depending on the location of the network some will receive 5a and others 5b and start mining on either of them. :slight_smile:

1 Like
#505

Ok perfect, thank you very much for the clarification!

#506

I have a quick question. What would constitute a block that has more PoW value then another?

#507

A block with a lower difficulty target. :slight_smile:

1 Like